Interview: Amplitude’s leaders on Endless Legend 2, relearning to be indie, and returning industry trust

Amplitude Studios made a bold move in 2024 by buying its own independence back from SEGA amidst a time of major industry upheaval and now the developer’s first release since returning to being indie is not far off — Endless Legend 2 is headed for a September 22, 2025, Early Access launch on PC.

With the stakes being higher than ever, I ask Amplitude CEO Romain de Waubert de Genlis at Gamescom 2025 if the team is more nervous than usual ahead of a release.

“It is scary. It always is,” he says. “It's also why we always try to have very early builds for players to be reassured or to know what to fix beforehand and not to find out too late. One of the good things about independence is to be able to go back to Early Access. We were one of the first to go Early Access back in the day, but it was very difficult to do in a bigger company. We’re so happy with that, but still scared — especially because things have changed over time and what it meant to be Early Access ten, fifteen years ago is different from today.”

The CEO adds that making a sequel to a beloved game is further upping the pressure: “It’s also scary because it’s number two. Working on a number two is really hard. Obviously it’s hard to work on number one, because you’re on a blank page, but for number two you have the expectations from number one — and they’re not the same for everyone. Some will want to see the innovation, some say they want innovation, but what they call innovation is actually just a patch. Pleasing everyone with number two? It’s really difficult.”

“We’ve been playtesting the game with over 5,000 players through an insider’s program for more than seven months now, releasing a new build every month, and that’s helped us a lot to narrow down those types of questions. Are players really wanting a lot of innovation? What are the comfort zones they want to find again in the sequel? It’s going to be exciting,” adds COO and fellow studio co-founder Max von Knorring. “Obviously, we’re nervously looking at the Early Access release, but it’s also good to have Hooded Horse with us, being able to speak about what is Early Access today, what is their vision of Early Access, and how we can make sure that we deliver the best game for our players. It’s an energy that we’ve been missing.”

Known as the Early Access publisher in the strategy genre, Hooded Horse has made a name for itself in recent years with hits like Against the Storm, Manor Lords, and 9 Kings.

Amplitude’s leadership contacted Hooded Horse after de Waubert de Genlis spent six months playing and enjoying its games — without putting together that all the titles were from the same publisher at first. “This was more or less around the time when we were getting independent, so I was like ‘Maybe we should talk to these guys.’ It obviously made a lot of sense,” he recounts.

“By being in a big company for a while, in a way, we got a bit blind.”

- Romain de Waubert de Genlis

“To go independent and to say ‘Okay, now I’m alone in that huge ocean of games and companies’ is really scary,” de Waubert de Genlis says. “So to have someone by your side in this situation is amazing, because by being in a big company for a while, in a way, we got a bit blind. So to have someone to help us open our eyes on the new situation is key. We can have our eyes open and still focus on making games instead of selling them, which is not really what we want to do.”

Amplitude hopes that its upcoming game, Endless Legend 2, can withstand the recent trend of turn-based strategy games receiving a middling reception thanks to its appealing and familiar universe, focus on empire management instead of fighting, and emphasis on RPG elements. Another strength, the developers hope, will be the game’s asymmetrical factions.

“They are really different. It’s not just visuals, not just a few units being different: It’s how you look at the world, you live the world, you build in the world, and even your goals in that world that are all very different,” de Waubert de Genlis describes.

He’s not wrong — we’ve gone hands-on with Endless Legend 2 on two different occasions, playing two different factions (Aspect and Necrophage) and the outcome couldn’t have been more varied.

The caveat, Max von Knorring, throws in, is that “It does take a lot of time to balance asymmetrical factions like that. We try to do that as best as we can, but we may never nail the perfect balance, because the asymmetry is that strong. At the same time that’s what makes the game fun and for the players to discover the ways to use those factions to go to victory is super interesting.”

Endless Legend 2’s most unique mechanic is the Tidefalls. Throughout a playthrough, the ocean covering most of the planet will recede step by step, periodically uncovering new land.

“The Tidefalls are something we implemented to try and bring something new to exploration and to player progression throughout the whole game. Having that feeling of being able to explore the surroundings is something that’s usually reserved for the beginning of the game, but it’s something that players love. We tried to find a way to bring that feeling and that sense to the whole game,” von Knorring explains.

Romain de Waubert de Genlis adds: “In most 4X games the X for eXplore [the other X’s stand for eXpand, eXploit, and eXterminate] tends to disappear very quickly and for me – and many of us – it’s usually one of the most fun parts. You love to discover and imagine how you’re going to use the world you’re finding. It feels a bit like the rush to the West, where someone says ‘Go!’ and you have to grab the lands before the others and when you have Tidefall, you have a bit of that feeling.”

A prevalent trend in turn-based strategy development over the last years has been that studios are trying to find a solution for low game completion rates and late game fatigue. Are Tidefalls Amplitude’s solution to this issue?

“It’s a solution. For the X of eXploration, I think it’s a great solution,” de Waubert de Genlis says. “What’s key to make players want to finish the game is to make sure that all your X’s have new elements coming in, refreshing the whole gameplay of that X throughout the game. If you give players everything about combat at the beginning, then after a while it will be all the same until the end. It’s the same with how you exploit the world or conquer the world.”

“We always tend to have a meta arc [...] linked to the Endless universe.”

- Max von Knorring

Max von Knorring elaborates on another reason Endless Legend 2 is giving players to finish their campaigns: “Tidefall is obviously linked to the narrative of the game. We always tend to have a meta arc, basically, that is bigger than just the planet and that’s linked to the Endless universe and that will also give sort of a rhythm. Playing different factions will give you clues and a better vision of the whole picture. And obviously there is a specific ending linked to that as well that gives a sense of progress and conclusion, even though you can still continue to play after you reach it. But it also helps us to master that.”

Won’t a storyline be a hindrance to replayability, though, by making games feel samey?

“Yes and no,” de Waubert de Genlis responds. “I see where you’re coming from in the sense that if you have a historical setting and you always have the same stories coming in, then it will be a bit boring. We have all these factions you can play and they all have their own story branches, so if you try and play all of the factions, you can find out about the world through their eyes, which is very refreshing and you never feel like you’re playing the same game, because the story will be different. Of course, if you only play a single faction all the time, you’ll see repetitions in the story after a while.”

He emphasizes the game’s RPG elements as well, explaining how storylines and characters will hook players and give them a reason to fight: “It’s not just numbers and units, it’s about these people that you care about and want to fight for, which makes the whole adventure stronger.”

However, the CEO agrees that the narrative can’t take precedence over the genre’s sandbox roots, since this is the priority for most players: “You have to make sure the sandbox can’t be blocked by the narrative. You have to be able to advance the way you want in the sandbox. If you’re stuck because of the storyline, then it could be frustrating. For us, it’s just about giving the tools to the players. It’s up to them to use them the way they want.”

With Endless Legend 2 close to being in the hands of the public, what goals do the two leaders have for the game and company until the end of 2025?

“Endless Legend, for many players, was a giant in the fantasy 4X space, so we want to make sure that the sequel is being seen as a proper successor to that,” de Waubert de Genlis says. “The first indications are definitely going in the right direction… we just have to make it official. And if that’s the case, then as a company everything will be easier as well.”

“It will also teach us what to do with Early Access as well, because we are rediscovering that again, so we’ll see if we will continue doing things that way. I think as a company, for the near future, we definitely want to keep our speciality on 4X, maybe expand a bit around 4X, but it’s all about 4X. It’s what we love, what our players love,” he says.

“GDC last year was a really dark moment for many studios.”

- Romain de Waubert de Genlis

Despite being nervous about the upcoming release, the two leaders also seem hopeful towards the future. “When we did our leap of faith a year ago, buying back Amplitude and going indie again, we were still in a very strange situation in the industry,” de Waubert de Genlis tells me. 

“GDC last year was a really dark moment for many studios. I remember, because when we go to GDC from France, most of the local industry is on the same plane, and before we went last year everyone was really hyped. It was like ‘Oh, I’m pitching some projects and meeting with my publisher’ and then on the way back it was ‘Oh, they killed the project.’ Everyone was depressed and the whole plane was silent. You could basically see the whole mood of the industry,” he recounts. “This year, it definitely was more exciting. Still prudence, still people being careful, but definitely a lot more interest and people looking for their next games. And from what we’re seeing here at Gamescom a few months later, we can see the trend going back up again.”

The CEO says that trust in the industry is rising again, emphasizing its importance in the grand scheme of business. “In the end, it’s all about trust in the future. How much trust you put in the future of your games and players buying these games. When people start losing their trust in the future, it causes people to flee all over the place and suddenly nobody wants to invest in games. So I think we’re in a good situation. We definitely want to ride that wave.”

I ask if the recent success of Expedition 33 from a fellow French indie studio is encouraging to Amplitude as well. Romain de Waubert de Genlis agrees emphatically, adding the success of Sloclap’s Rematch to that of Expedition 33 as another example. 

“There’s cool stuff happening in the French industry, even if it was quite dark a year ago,” he says.

“In a way, this is all thanks to Ubisoft spreading out all over France some time ago. Not like a virus,” he laughs. “It’s something very positive. Basically, all these companies are linked by being ex-Ubisoft. So we have all that amazing talent with a lot of experience and it’s really exciting. I mean, we’re a country of engineers and artists, so video games are perfect.”

Aside from preparing Endless Legend 2 for its Early Access launch, Amplitude has been forging a partnership with Passion Pictures to create an anime series based on the Endless IP. 

This has been in the works for quite a while, Max von Knorring says: “Their industry, as much as the video game industry, went a little bit downhill for some time and when things were getting more positive, it felt like the right moment to just start all of the things we’ve been discussing for almost a year. So we’re in the middle of that process of creating the story, scenario, and characters, so it’s super exciting and interesting to see the similarities as well as the differences of both industries.”

In this regard, independence seems to be another boon for the company. I ask whether a move like this would have been possible under SEGA and de Waubert de Genlis hesitates for the first time during the conversation, picking his words with care.

“I think that’s difficult to answer. I think that of course we can be faster with something like this now. When you’re in a bigger group that has a lot of historical brands and franchises and universes, where you’re the newcomer, you will not be the main party in that kind of field. For us, there is only Endless, so we are the priority and can have quick discussions,” he says. “These creators love to have direct access to the creators behind that universe, not to have to go through a whole pyramid of people first. So, no… it would have been very different, but now it’s cool. I can’t wait to see what it will be.”

“We don’t know where that will go, but we were even thinking ‘What if we were to get the involvement of the community in the creation of that series?’ We’re talking about that, so it could be something super interesting to test out,” von Knorring says, once again showing how deeply rooted in Early Access the company’s thinking is. 

If anyone is going to make Early Access anime work, it could well be Amplitude.

For more from this conversation, check out Amplitude leadership’s thoughts on Civilization 7 and its similarities to Humankind.

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